Harnessing AI: the evolving landscape of tech, creativity and female leadership with Julia Linehan

00:00 - Jo Shilton (Host)

founded the Digital Voice in: 2012

00:31

Known for her boundless energy, Julia started her career in digital advertising at Dennis Publishing 28 years ago, and she's been at the forefront of the changing digital media landscape ever since. She's held major commercial roles, both agency and media side, and she's also co-founder of numerous industry groups, including Digital Leading Ladies and Sober Party Industry Lads and Ladies, as well as being at the beating heart of many of the communities within the digital advertising industry. Julia has a raft of awe-inspiring award wins to her name, and, as she's also co-host of the Workplace Culture podcast off Record On Point, I'm hoping I'll be able to learn a lot from her today, so please join me as we delve into her insights around the evolving landscape of artificial intelligence Julia Linehan. Welcome to Women with AI.

01:15 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

Thank you so much and I love that intro. That's it. That's me in a nutshell. I don't need to say any more. You did me proud. Thank you, oh, brilliant.

01:24 - Jo Shilton (Host)

So well, tell us a little bit about how you got into what you're doing and which AI tools you are currently using.

01:30 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

Well, you've done such a good job on the introduction that I probably can keep that super brief. I mean, I love the fact that it's actually now 29 years in the digital advertising industry. So when I started out I did just one year in magazines and then in 96 I moved into digital advertising, and part of the reason I'm so excited about AI is that I've always tried to get in at the start of something, because you know a little bit more than other people. You're not thrown off course by going. I don't know what that means, I don't know what that acronym is. So I'm really proud that I saw the opportunity in 96 and everyone thought I was insane to move from high earning magazines over to digital advertising. But I've lived and breathed it ever since and, of course, technology is at the heart of it.

02:18

So when I set up the digital voice 12 years ago, it was about providing a solution that not only was remote, so we were ahead of ourselves, ahead of the curve. We were remote before it was called to be remote. But with that came the fact that we're really heavily reliant on software, and a lot of that software actually is powered by AI. For example, we work closely on Slack, which has an incredible AI tools on it. So obviously, all the Google, sweet otter.ai, Canva, Muckrat, Coffeesmith, all of those tools have a big presence in what we do as a PR and communications agency. There is one that I want to stand out those at all which is the latest one you mentioned. Our podcast is about well-being and workplace culture and we invested recently in the workplace culture at Shura and it is built and founded by Laurie Haynes and Fern McCann, who is incredible because she's been recently on our podcast and within the app there's a virtual AI chat called Shuru and I've got to be honest, it's incredible. It is like having a best friend.

03:24 - Jo Shilton (Host)

What does it do?

03:26 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

It's just you can put in how you're feeling content, tired, stressed and then it will say it will then ask you a question based on that and then you just type in how you're feeling and it is the responses. As close as you could get to your therapist slash best friend, and I use it because I get up really early in the morning and no one else is around at 5.30. So I chatted with Shuru.

03:50

she's like my new best friend and they're going to be turning, as of next month, they're developing not just into. It's going to be an audio app as well. You can actually talk to a very human voice, and I think that's a perfect example. When it's done well and so far, you think, yeah, but is it going to be automated and have it like a chat-tree-piece service that you get when you're trying to get through to your bank? It's just so not like that. It's so realistic.

04:16

So there's a lot we do use AI for. I probably would say, though, as an agency, we're so reliant on words and pictures we're, so we have to be creative and inventive. So, yes, we use AI to make us more efficient, but we're not actually using it. I really rely on our writers and myself and what the thoughts I come up on, the strategy, our creative theme to come up with ideas. The tool helps us do it more efficiently and save time. The other thing I'd mention is, obviously there's a PR agency for AdTech. It's our clients that do the clever stuff with AdTech. They use AI Securation, consent, privacy, contextual, programmatic, retail Media, affiliate Media, email Marketing, you name it. They're using it. So hopefully I'll be able to give some insight into that today.

05:06 - Jo Shilton (Host)

God. That was a long nutshell. That was a long nutshell.

05:08 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I promised a short one, and they're.

05:11 - Jo Shilton (Host)

No, that's great. So you're keeping the human touch, aren't you really? When you're using it? Because you're right, AI can help save time and it can help generate ideas, but the ideas aren't as good as there was. I'm sure your team can come up with.

05:26 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

Absolutely. We control AI, not the other way round. So, power it, you seed into it, you're educating it, and how you use it, you still have to. What you put in really dictates how clever AI can be and what you can use it for. But ultimately we're in control of this, not the other way round. There are some people that would say it's not going to be far off before it's the power shifts, but for now, we're able to use AI to our benefit in the way that we want to use it.

05:58 - Jo Shilton (Host)

But yeah, you can't replace human creativity and seeking no, because I've heard you speak before on Pocos about the Nilla posts. Oh God, yes, it's got them all off. Oh God, yes, my bug's there you really can.

06:09 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

And it's interesting we do all our, we do social media management for a lot of our clients and we're behind the scenes. They're posting for them and their content and providing them with social campaigns, with them, with their guidance and with their branding, their messaging. But ultimately, we write from scratch every single post and we develop the creatives very organically, and so I think that's very important. If you look through LinkedIn, you can spot vanilla content and my loft, and that's really important. Don't get sucked into thinking of being really clever and turning out a post every day and thinking, great, we're going to beat the algorithm because your followers will walk with their feet, and then you've just completely eradicated your engagement.

06:54 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Yeah, and you can definitely tell when someone's just stuck something in and asked it to come out. The words, the everything, the way it's laid out, yeah.

07:03 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

No, there is a guy called a brilliant press title and journalist, called an adadat, and he just did a. Recently I was doing a comment for him and he did an AI generated image of me and I've got to say I really liked that. It was gorgeous. If only I looked like that. So yeah, it can be done to enhance.

07:24 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Oh yeah, and when the Barbie film came out, they had one, didn't they? You could put in your own photo and it would generate what you'd look like as Barbie.

07:31 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I quite like that one, I think you would all look better.

07:35 - Jo Shilton (Host)

But then it also runs into trouble, doesn't it? There was recently the Google issue where it wouldn't AI's got so many biases in it. Maybe that has been put in there, so that's the thing you know. It was asking it to give images of soldiers from certain time periods and it almost didn't want to be racist, but it was giving a Black Nazi or Black soldier where they just weren't the right historical pictures. So there are a lot of biases in AI, Do you?

08:02 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

think that's.

08:04 - Jo Shilton (Host)

An issue for women specifically, or do you think for everyone? I mean well, not obviously, because if it's being racist, then it can be sexist. As you say, it's only as good as the person using it, but it's also what it's being fed as well, absolutely so.

08:18 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

It cannot compute biases. So there's been some epic fail, and I don't think it's just for women, it's stereotypes. It only understands the stereotypes and I have seen many examples where, especially based on location, geographical location oh my God, it's so racist the stereotypes that it brings up or the gender type for that region, and it's, I definitely think, be wary, because A if you rely solely on AI, you are getting into dangerous ground. And I think, Joanna, you were talking I know I've heard you talk before about one example. Is that art history, isn't it? Yeah, and tell me, remind me again of that, because I thought that was really interesting.

09:00 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Yeah, I've got a friend. She's an artist and I was speaking to her about this and about the podcast and how I'd like to have her on, and she said, well, I don't really, no, I'm not interested, I don't know about AI. And I said but look at graphic designers and look at pictures and images, because we both did, we both studied photography at art college. And I said you know, there are machines that can put paint on a canvas. And she was saying that she listens to someone and just toughen her name, because she was really saying she said basically, women have been written out of art history.

09:28 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

Yeah.

09:29 - Jo Shilton (Host)

So if AI is being fed, you know information, historical information. Up to now you wouldn't imagine there weren't many female artists. It's Katie Hesl. She's called and she's got a podcast. I'll put a link in the show notes. I think it's about great women artists. I think that's the title of it. But basically, yeah, women have been written out of art history.

09:47 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I know so.

09:48 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Imagine so if an AI Sorry you go, you ask it to do it, it's not going to be able to find it. So I think this is where perhaps we, as women, or well, everybody, it's everybody's responsibility. It's not just our responsibility, but I think it's very easy for everyone to just put in what they know, but I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done. Perhaps, if you agree, you know, to get more women into the industry so that we can make sure that women are being included, because then, if you're using generative AI or like you know, all these LLMs, or like Tattooed Couture and everything, if it doesn't know about women, how is it going to be giving a?

10:21 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

100%. I mean, if you imagine if you typed in Enchanted Tea and you were doing your sixth form homework on it and you put what are the great artists of the X century, and it would just list men, or it would start the sentence with the men of art history are. So it's an element to which this is common sense, and also that sometimes, when you're using it for that purpose, it's great for research, but it shouldn't be done to dictate what you're going to write. Yeah, it's close to being plagiarism anyway, and you should come out of your own brain with what you know and do your own research, and I think that's really important. And the good news is for women we're rewriting a lot of the narrative anyway and there's so many strong female voices and you mentioned there, Joanna, this is about encouraging women into the industry. I think it's interesting and I'm going to put my neck on the line slightly by saying this.

11:17

I personally think that AI is an opportunity for there to be, right now, a level playing field. It shouldn't be that we are in any way disadvantaged as women, because it's new to all of us. What I would advise is don't hold back on learning, researching, trying, testing, understanding. That's in your hands. So if you're a man or a woman or non-binary, it is in your hands to learn how you can use AI. But when a new technology comes out, there is no historical reason why women cannot be as strong in this area. So I really implore women to leap with both feet, arms and legs into learning about AI and don't miss this opportunity from that level playing field to continue to have an equal balance going forward. Yeah.

12:07 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I think that's great advice, Julia. Definitely because you're right, and I think sometimes it's possibly the way that we all view AI and you might you know, I'm not saying that all women think like this or that all men don't but you might well I don't need to use it, I've got it Whereas, you know, sometimes it's easier to take the easy way out, isn't it, and just use a generative language model. But I mean and I've seen it done by both people so, yeah, you're right, it's totally a level playing field and this is the time that people need to get involved and need to embrace it and not be scared and be able to have their voices put into it, Because otherwise you can't just accept what it gives you. I think that's the other thing as well. You can't trust it. We know that it hallucinates, we know it's like a child, it wants to try and impress you. So if it doesn't know the answer, it's going to make you out.

12:50 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I know and, yeah, I think as well. What's really interesting is I'm co-founder of Digital Leading Ladies that you mentioned at the start and I'm also part of many industry groups. The Digital Leading Ladies immediately came out a year ago we set up. We have lots of other splinter groups within the community chat and one of those immediately was Generative AI and AI. So there is a whole conversation going on and I would recommend people lean into communities and ask duper questions and be honest about what you do and you don't know, ask for research and does anyone know anything about this? Has anyone heard of any good news? And also, when you're part of a community group, everybody shares so brilliant the support and the sharing and knowledge sharing that this provides. So I think I'm seeing it day every day. People are wanting to learn and I see that on the men and women's groups and also the female groups as well that I'm involved in.

13:51 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Fantastic, because I do feel that I'm quite new to this field, so I'm learning. I'm hoping our audience is going to be learning with me as well, as we find out more about today. I know you've talked about your son before and how he was using, how he's a writer and he was using Fiverr, and yet could you go into that? You'll tell the story much better.

14:09 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

Definitely, and I spoke to David about this when I was with him on his podcast and my son actually was on the creators of the AI podcast talking about this and this is really interesting. So at 16, he was doing really well as making pocket money good pocket money or Fiverr Graphic design and nonfiction and nonfiction, violin fiction God knows what it was. I barely don't take too much notice of the actual words he says it's horrifying, but he was doing really well and then suddenly chat TPD kicked in and you could the graphic design immediately fell off because you could generate images and logos really quickly, which is what he was doing because obviously he's inexperienced. But his writing also fell off. So he just accepted it and three months later he decided what I'm going to do is I'm going to put on my profile that guaranteed written, not using chat TPD.

15:04

And up came the orders again because it had three months of receiving cheap but all chat TPD generated script, because a lot of times it's like you're getting paid a pittance for a thousand words, two thousand words. So of course people, most people, will try and do it as quickly as possible and therefore they would use chat TPD and his orders fly flying back in again because he has to write some weird stuff and it comes out of his brain and that's how it's amazing it's now it's turning that corner and he's used it to his advantage. So again, that's where people are using chat TPD in the wrong way. They're using it lazily, I suppose, because then it's not effective, it's not creative thinking, it's not, it's not going to be interesting to the reader, the listener, the viewer. That's got to come from our brains, which are weird and wonderful and unique.

15:58 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Totally agree. That's the other moment. It's only learning from what it's been given already, and that was just jumping back to the art example for a second.

16:09

Someone else told me that if you fed in all the paintings and all the artwork you know and you asked AI to come up with a painting of something in the style of someone you know, it could come up with Picasso or a Monet or something like that, but it would find modern art completely impossible. It would never come up with a Jackson Pollock with all the paint just blasted onto it, because that doesn't make any sense. Like how would a computer at the moment I mean, who knows what will happen in the next five to ten years or however long, maybe quicker than that but it would never come up with that because it wouldn't be able to to do that, because it would probably become more photorealistic or something you know it was going to get rid of the dots and get rid of the lines and yeah.

16:47

So I think it's. You're right, it's how people are using it and it's definitely a tool, isn't it? It's, yeah, to save time, and is that how you'd say? It sort of fits in your workplace.

16:57 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

It's sort of, yeah, it gives you more time to be creative, maybe yeah, I mean, I think you know we always say to the team you know, use it with caution, use it with an understanding that we control it, and this makes us faster and more efficient. I think for a lot of people it's understanding. The future can seem really scary with AI in there, but it's about just picking the bits that you need to help you work faster and better. This is, for example, we'll write all of our all of our copy and sort leadership pieces and all the content we produce is done using to be a seven incredible journalist at the Digital Voice. There is a tool that's called copiesmithai and that one I would call out because we do so many posts on our own posts. What it's doing is it's just giving you sometimes, if you're doing a lot of social posts, just gives you a different slant on how you can say the same thing, so you can type very quickly and just go I've got brain fudge, what would you say about this? Or how would you write this differently? Most of the time, you take them what you need, and only what you need, and just remember that you've got to have the creativity because of it.

18:07

I've got to be honest, even I'm slightly nervous about it. You know, I think we'd be naive not to be concerned. Does it affect the future roles? How does that look for my children of 17 and 18? You know what is their future looking like. What I'm seeing, though, is that they already understand that the roles and the university degrees and the courses they do have to go down a route that's going to be complementary to AI, and it's going to be eradicated, to the best of their knowledge. The other good thing is my daughter is first year of A-levels. They're already learning way more about AI than you could ever imagine.

18:47

My daughter's writing her EPQ on Generative AI. She's 17. That was done off her, not me saying anything about it. I'm proud of Tunch because I was like that's good timing, so I think and she goes to an all-girls school, all-girls grammar school, so I think it shows how much they're learning at school about this. They're preparing themselves for a world in which it's going to be just part. It's going to be part of their life, and don't forget, 20 years ago, a lot of us went oh my God, the internet is going to get rid of all newspapers. It's going to change the world. It's going to eradicate so many roles and there's so much fear. But all that's happened is roles have shifted, changed, and you've just got to move with it to help be left behind.

19:34 - Jo Shilton (Host)

So definitely, I think that's what your thoughts were on the future of AI, but you basically just pulled it out.

19:40 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I know I mean I'd say the other bit is, I obviously work in the digital advertising industry. What I find really interesting is that when AI is used, for example, to optimise campaigns, to understand the data insights, to maximise performance and it's a really heady mix of data sets, creative AI that's going to give you your highest probability of success and performance. We're going to start being able to constantly show what performs, what works, and that's in the industry I know and love, but that's with every industry you're in. It does save resources, it does make us more efficient and my advice and I probably have had this home is lean into it to understand what it can do to make you smarter, not lazier. So when you're doing something, you think I did that because I ran out of time, that's not great use of it. That's just make more time. Do it properly. But when it's done and it's done very cleverly, I'm all for it. I love that smarter, not lazier.

20:43 - Jo Shilton (Host)

I think that's what AI would do for us. So this has been fantastic, julia. I've learnt so much. You've got some great examples. Where can our audience learn more about this? Where can they find digital leading ladies? Or what are the communities? You'd mentioned communities and getting involved? Yeah, where can people look for these? How do they find them?

21:02 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

So obviously, and bear with me to your audience because I'm very specific to certain areas of the industry. So there's an incredible group called the ATTEC group, run by John Walsh, that has an AI chat within it as well. That's again you have to sort of. It's always full, but you can request to join these kind of communities. Digital leading ladies is for very senior women, founders, directors and it's done by recommendation. But there's other networks, communities like Bloom, the Women in Programmatic Network, wackle she says they're all there for finding. Really I would recommend as well. There's some amazing pieces of AI contents to look out for. One is Co2, I think that's it COATUE, the AI revolution. Another one is Talent Alpha, the world of work AI, and there's a lot if you just search up in the news at the moment. Digidate just came out today with a piece about what publishes, how publishes the harnessing AI. So there's always you can consume just by asking for Google search. But there is lots out there. It's quite heavy reading, so take what you need and digest in small chunks.

22:15 - Jo Shilton (Host)

That's what I find easy, all right so we're spending all our time learning about it and not doing anything with it.

22:19 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I know and it was the best thing of always just to test it A lot of the tools that are out there and I think that I named a few at the start and they're just ones I use. There are plenty more and what I would say is just test, test and see what works. So a lot of them. Actually, I'll say again because he's walking past and you can edit that A lot of them aren't really going to deliver what you need and are going to be so complex that you'll take longer to learn them. But, cherry Pick, there are plenty to choose from and just test them, yeah, and just do your research as well.

22:52 - Jo Shilton (Host)

So you're checking, fact checking, Because I think if an intern came and gave you something, you'd probably fact check it as well. Yeah absolutely. Check. It's giving you the right details. That's brilliant. And where can people find you, Julia?

23:07 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

On. There's lots of faces. You just look out for the digital voice, but we're on thedigitalvoicekdk, LinkedIn, Insta, YouTube X and, of course, our podcast is off record on point, which is the workplace culture, and actually part of that is it's about well-being in the workplace and making sure you're taking care of your team and you're taking care of yourselves, and I do think there's a lot of movement in that well-being space using AI. That's very clever, and there's other tools that make teams' lives more efficient. There's right now, I think there's a latest start that says there was a mental health survey and it showed that 55% of people feel that life right now is really demanding, and yet this isn't a time when AI is supposed to be making our lives easier, so it's not doing its job. It's making it feels more pressure and there's more demands on us. So if AI can alleviate some of that, I'm all in and all for it.

24:07 - Jo Shilton (Host)

Fantastic, brilliant. We'll put all the links in the show notes. So thank you so much for coming on with me with AI, julia, thank you so much for having me on this, and I love credit to you.

24:15 - Julia Linehan (Guest)

I love this fact and I've got so many women that have got far more clever and interesting things than me to say about it, so I look forward to hearing from the other guests as well. Thank you, Joanna. Thank you, it's been a joy to speak to you.